The New Generation Of The Fitness Industry – Industry Change Ep 2

Welcome back to another episode of Industry Change with Fitness Australia CEO, Bill Moore. With over 3 decades of experience in the industry, Bill kick-started his career as a Personal Training in his own Balmain studio before moving through to co-founding one of Australia’s largest online training programs, the 12 Week Body Transformation with Michelle Bridges.

Having been in the fitness industry for over 30 years, Bill has seen the transformation of businesses operating in a primarily offline platform to having to compete for dominance in the online space.

Overall, the industry is part of a huge shift at the moment, with fitness rates at an all time high while obesity rates are still on the rise. Bill forecasts that the industry will need to move towards aligning fitness and nutrition in order to bridge the gap between fit and unfit members of society.

Thanks for watching Episode 2 of Industry Change with Richard Toutounji.

For more great episodes, be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or YouTube as well as like and share on Social Media.

Interested in learning more about how to adjust to change in your industry? Bill Moore will be a special guest at our upcoming two-day Digital Marketing Business Summit. Be sure to get your tickets today.

Video Transcription

Richard T: Welcome back to Industry Change, and today I’m in the Fitness Australia head office and I’m speaking to the CEO, Bill Moore. Welcome, Bill.

Bill Moore: Thank you, Richard. Lovely to see you. Thank you for having me.

Richard T: You too, thank you. So today I wanted to chat all about change. I think that Fitness Australia … if we look at fitness industry in general, we were just talking, it’s had a massive adjustment and change. And like any industry it goes through a growth period and a stabilisation period. And you’re come aboard in this new role … is it 12 months, 18 months?

Bill Moore: Just over … it’s one year and two days actually.

Richard T: One year and two days, perfect timing.

Bill Moore: Counting the days now. (laughs)

Richard T: Unbelievable. But the thing that I find very different, that you’ve started your early career in the fitness industry and so you’re probably great person to have a conversation around where do you think the industry’s going, because you kind of started industry. I’m curious to see, to hear more about that, kind of, first time that you stepped into the industry, you know, what was that first position you ever had before, we’re talking about what fitness is today?

Bill Moore: I think it was the classic situation in when you make your hobby your career. I’ve always been an exerciser. I went to a training gym for a long time, been physically active pretty much all of my life. I was in construction in the first stage of my life and that’s a tough old game and I was always looking for an opportunity to get into fitness.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: And that turned up in the mid-90s.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: A friend of mine, who’s gym I used to train at, he said “Let’s put a gym together, the pair of us.” So, I found a site and then between us we put together Balmain Fitness, which is still standing today.

Richard T: Still standing, yeah.

Bill Moore: Yes. Still standing.

Richard T: It’s a classic.

Bill Moore: Yeah, I guess it is, yeah.

Richard T: It’s a classic.

Bill Moore: So, that was my early venture into the fitness industry. At that stage the industry wasn’t particularly refined.

Richard T: When you say “refined”, what do you mean by that?

Bill Moore: Well, I think that we … there was still the very traditional weight-body builder-sweaty gym-image was still –

Richard T: Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of stuff?

Bill Moore: Absolutely.

Richard T: Yeah?

Bill Moore: That was in. Yep.

So, that was what was going around and I think that we lacked credibility and cut through with our market. There were no big brands.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: No opportunity really to build a lot of big brands, even if you had a lot of money. So, there was a lot of independence all out there just trying to get the message out.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: And that was an interesting time and a fun time, I’ve got to say.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: I enjoyed my time at that club. I had a few clubs after that.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: But in the process got involved at industry level, because we weren’t well-organized.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: The Department of Sport and Recreation type of fair trading came to a pretty loose group of fitness, independent fitness club [inaudible 00:02:49] –

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: They said “Guys, you need to fix your act up.”

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: So, we need you to form an association. That’s how I got involved.

Richard T: Alright. So you formed one of the first associations, then?

Bill Moore: Mmm. Fitness New South Wales. I was on the steering committee to film that.

Richard T: Great.

Bill Moore: And some of the board actually for a couple of years, so yeah, they were a fun time because it was all so new.

Richard T: It was all new. Everything was at the start of developing, right?

Bill Moore: Yes. And it was all going wrong, you know?

Richard T: (Laughs)

Bill Moore: There was gyms closing everywhere. I was one of those blokes standing outside handing out leaflets on those cold mornings saying, “Sorry about that again. Again? Second time? Okay.” So –

Richard T: And the memberships … I remember the memberships that you sold for like four-year memberships and things like that, right?

Bill Moore: Oh. Well, not everybody –

Richard T: Not you.

Bill Moore: No, no. That was a common thing – health centres having five year memberships.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: Small change, you know?

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: Like, it was just a recipe for disaster.

Richard T: Yeah, yeah. And from there, you have innovated a little … you’ve innovated quite a lot that space. Now, you’ve been a pioneer in moving fitness offline online. I’d love to hear a bit more about that story.

Bill Moore: Yeah. That was in the Michelle Bridges years. When you have an independent club, you can put a fantastic facility on, but you had no brand –

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: To drive it in the marketing. With the Michelle Bridges experience, we had a brand, and we knew off the back of that, what can we do with this brand?

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: This is a different space, instead of actually trying to, you know, establish a brand, we’ve got a brand, what do we do with it? So, delivery was everything.

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: So, we no longer had a health club that we could say “Here are the great – ”

Richard T: “Here, you walk in the door and here’s the equipment”, right?

Bill Moore: Yup. That’s right.

So, we very very carefully attached that brand to a lot of carefully selected categories. So, we’re in food, we’re in apparel, but the online was a big one.

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: We knew that if we cracked that then we were going to have a completely different dialogue, completely different narrative in the fitness industry if we were able to do that.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: Nobody is doing that really well in Australia.

Richard T: No, well, when I say “innovative”, now, yes, we have a lot of brands doing online, doing programmes, but when I always like to see when the pioneers what happens, it’s always the first few players that, we’ve got an opportunity for example the internet, we have a brand, now nobody’s connected the two up –

Bill Moore: Mmm.

Richard T: In the way that you guys did that.

Bill Moore: Mmm. Mmm.

Richard T: What were the hurdles that you had to come across to actually say to people, “Hey, you can actually do fitness online?”

Bill Moore: Probably the biggest one was that we were clever in the space. We didn’t, myself and Michelle, we weren’t well-educated in the space –

Richard T: Okay.

Bill Moore: And didn’t have a sound understanding.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: So, what we did was take on two business partners that did. And that is actually one of my maxims in business. You know?

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: You don’t know everything. Get help, get assistance however that looks, to get you where you need to go. So, we took on two business partners that were very smart in the space.

Richard T: Yes.

Bill Moore: So, then we had the delivery covered. We had the brand covered.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: We had an audience.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: That was ready and waiting to hear it, and also we just caught the zeitgeist of what was going on in the community at the time.

Richard T: Right. Yep. Yes. Yes.

Bill Moore: You know?

Richard T: Timing.

Bill Moore: The notion –

Richard T: Timing. Timing.

Bill Moore: Yep. The timing was spot on.

Richard T: Mmm. Do you think timing’s important in every area of business?

Bill Moore: Very important. Very, very tough to play the catch-up game.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: When we had 12 Year Body Transformation really flying –

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: “The Biggest Loser”, the TV show put together their own version and they literally stole our idea.

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: To put this together and of course they had a lot of money behind it and they actually had Shannon Ponton –

Richard T: Yes.

Bill Moore: Who is one of the other trainers on “The Biggest Loser” who is presenting it and facing it. Did it succeed? No, it didn’t. It fell over.

Richard T: Why do you think so?

Bill Moore: When you’re trying to play catch-up, what do you going to do with it?

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: How are you going to be better than what … If you’re going to do something, you’ve got to innovate in that market. There’s no good bringing, copying somebody else’s product and saying, “Well, I’m doing it better”, with a different personality. You won’t.

Richard T: Correct.

Bill Moore: You’re never going to do that.

Richard T: Right, because it’s a time issue. You’ve got to be first in the market with an innovative approach. That’s a really great piece of advice, ’cause I do believe that, we speak to a lot of business owners here, as you know, we speak to a lot of health and fitness business owners and I do believe that everybody has uniqueness about them and it’s about understanding what uniqueness is and then matching it to the delivering offering and the distribution channel that you can get to.

Bill Moore: Yeah. That’s a good point. That unique setting proposition –

Richard T: Mmm. I love the process, you said, you know, you attached your brand to other assets, other brands, and they’re the brand that you felt aligned with and built all the brands up together.

Bill Moore: Yeah, we were very careful about that, as well.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: Now, other trainers on the show were doing deals with Calci companies and goodness-knows-what-else and pizza companies.

Richard T: (Laughs) Pizza companies.

Bill Moore: That actually happened, yeah. So, but we’re very careful about that.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: We turned away a lot of money in the early days because it just wasn’t right for us.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: So –

Richard T: And that’s really holding true to values, because when you’ve got to turn away money, when there’s money on the table there and you’re saying “No” because you’re seeing the bigger vision.

Bill Moore: And that’s exactly, we can see that far forward as to where this is going to end up, and being really, really confident with that and being prepared to walk away from the short term, knowing that there’s a longer term opportunity.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: The other thing that’s important with that is to know your market.

Richard T: Yup.

Bill Moore: We knew every detail about the people that we were selling to. We knew where she shopped, we knew how old she was, we knew she had kids or not, all those things we knew we had we went better in Penrith and what we did in North Sydney.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: We knew exactly how that socioeconomic demographic worked.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: And it was much easier for us to tailor not only the product, but also our language, our tone of voice, our messaging.

Richard T: And you adjust the depending where it was.

Bill Moore: Absolutely.

Richard T: Very smart. Very smart.

Talk, just to wrap that up, tell me about the numbers that you guys are doing, if you can share common side of what that looks like today.

Bill Moore: On … you’re talking about 12 Year Body Transformation?

Richard T: 12 Year Body Transformation.

Bill Moore: I’m not sure, I actually had dinner last night … we, one of my co-founders of 12 Year Body Transformation, is nothing like it was in the hay day and that itself is interesting because I think it talks a lot about business life and what you do with that, but having said that it’s still very successful, it still goes well. We’ve got hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people –

Richard T: Great.

Bill Moore: Have done that. That programme.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: And not only just done it, but we were doing something very good. We got so many, what we used to call tilled-up UBT babies out there, people that couldn’t concieve because they weren’t healthy enough.

Richard T: Is that right?

Bill Moore: They put them through that programme and it ended up, we got one, two, and next thing you know there’s dozens, there’s probably hundreds now, so —

Richard T: Unbelievable.

Bill Moore: The benefits that come out of that. It’s just solid stuff.

Richard T: Mmm. Mmm.

Bill Moore: It’s just great, great piece of work that’s been done with a programme that’s being delivered online. You know, via the internet connection.

Richard T: No, no, that’s amazing, because it’s microcommunity, and you said something really interesting in regard to everything has a life cycle to it, and we go through ups and downs and I think that’s kind of where businesses and we have a lot of businesses that watch this programme, and it’s kind of where businesses go. There’s an up and down cycle on everything. However, I actually think that that’s where my interest is, the innovation part is the adjustment change and how do you predict the future, how do you know that you’re going to hit a down point if you’re a new personal trainer or new fitness marketing agency or new health and fitness business, any business, and you say “Hey. Things are good now. Things are going well. That’s going to be good forever pretty much.” How do you actually see where the problem may lie in the future?

Bill Moore: Mmm. That’s a good point, actually. It is very common.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: It’s a bit of a pet subject of mine, I’ve got to say, because the time to innovate in your business is not when you see the down turn. The time to innovate is when you sit on the up.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: So, most businesses let them get to this point and things start to drop off and they go, “Wow, we need to do something.” That’s the wrong time.

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: The time to do that, yeah, too late, is here on the way up. Start looking for where the issues are, where the growth is, where the innovation lies –

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: What the technology around you that can support you with it, who are the new markets that you can address? That’s the time to be doing that.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: And time and time again businesses drop off and then you’re digging yourself out of a hole.

Richard T: Yep. Yep. We’ve all been through there.

Bill Moore: Yep.

Richard T: Talk about … so, let’s talk about a little bit more specifically in the fitness industry, we obviously see things like Fitbits, we see things like all these online programmes that are coming out. They’re everywhere, right? So, obviously people are understanding, “Hey. There’s a gold mine. Let’s get on it. Maybe too late? We don’t know.” But there is now information out there, this information technology, we can go do fitness anywhere, any place. We just have a phone, an I-phone, a computer, we can do it at home. How is that going to shift in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years to the gyms, to the personal training studios? Do you think they’re going to be around? Do you think it’s all going to change?

Bill Moore: I think they’ll certainly be around.

Richard T: Okay.

Bill Moore: I think what we’ll see is a shift certainly with the bigger clubs, with the bigger bots clubs. We’re going to see a shift in health and wellness. They’ve got the capacity there to bring in allied health in those spaces, to expand into that. I think that’s going to be a major trend that we’ll see.

Richard T: Great.

Bill Moore: And they need to do something to compete with the 24/7. 24/7 clubs couldn’t have existed ten years ago. No one would know what to do when you walked in there.

Richard T: Walked in the box.

Bill Moore: And you go in a 24/7 club now and most people … I don’t see … I go to a 24/7 club. I don’t actually see too much actually going wrong in there. Everyone pretty knows what they’re doing.

Richard T: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Moore: So, one of the great achievements of the fitness industry since the early years of the 90s is that we’ve built this incredible cohort of gym savvy people that can walk into a club and –

Richard T: Yes.

Bill Moore: And make that happen.

Richard T: Yes. Yes.

Bill Moore: That couldn’t have happened before.

Richard T: Yes. I remember years ago even my gym that I was at, in the weights section, there was a cardio and weights section, and you would never see a female in a weight section. I went overseas for a couple of years and I came back and I went to the same gym with a fresh mind, I go “Oh my gosh! It’s all mixed now. There’s no 50% here for that. It’s all kind of mixed in.

Bill Moore: Yeah. Yeah.

Richard T: Just that innovation of education around how to do fitness and you walk into 24/7 and everyone’s like, everybody’s having a fine time. Nobody’s wearing thongs and doing crazy things.

Bill Moore: Yeah.

Richard T: They’re responsible, right?

Bill Moore: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think though that really demonstrates that maturation of the industry.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: We are a mature industry now at every level.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: So, we’ve improved our participation rate by around 15-16% now. I think back in the 90s, we were about 9% or thereabouts. We’ve almost doubled it in that time.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: But that’s big news. We’ve only got to increase participation rate by around about 1% and to see a significant change to the revenue that the industry produces, so always trying to increase that cohort, always trying to get more people into exercise. That’s the issue.

Richard T: Let’s talk about that then, because you look at the consumer side and we’re still seeing obesity rates rise, right? But then we’re also seeing that the fitness industry stabilised, it’s in a growth pattern, more people are educated around fitness and around health. Are we seeing in the future that that is going to shift and change? What do you think that barrier is?

Bill Moore: Probably nutrition is the thing that’s held us back.

Richard T: Okay.

Bill Moore: But there’s a very good argument to say that the fitness industry has done a terrific job of getting fit people fitter.

Richard T: Yep. Fit people fitter.

Bill Moore: Yup.

Richard T: Interesting.

Bill Moore: You could certainly argue that, because it’s a very valid point, Richard. That, you know, what impression have we made?

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: In actual fact, we’ve got more clubs, more access, more people exercising –

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: And yet we’ve got a bigger health issue that’s going on out there.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: We’re actually not … The fitness industry isn’t reaching its consumer when it comes to nutrition.

Richard T: Interesting.

Bill Moore: So, and that’s going to take time for that to happen.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: But also we’re not in the health agenda.

Richard T: Sure.

Bill Moore: In the public health agenda.

Richard T: Sure. Sure.

Bill Moore: We don’t have our feet under the table of a public health agenda meetings.

Richard T: Sure. And I see this, what we’re talking about here, is possibly the innovation for the future, is there’s a market there, how do we attract the nutrition, how do we attract the fitness, how do we track the not going to the fitness people but going to the unhealthy people that actually need that support?

Bill Moore: Yeah. Yeah.

Richard T: And it’s funny because, you know, now we can walk into a 24/7 gym and everybody’s behaving themselves, but possibly do we need to get them not behaving themselves, so we can get the unhealthy people to the gym?

Bill Moore: (Laughs) Yeah, that’s probably … that’s a good point. Probably not a good measure of reaching the unhealthy population.

Richard T: (Laughs)

Bill Moore: Everyone in there looking fit, knowing what they’re doing.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: So, we really need some people that aren’t.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: So, I mean from our point of view, we’re always trying to expand the market. We’re always trying to get more personal trainers out there. The more PTs we’ve got out there, the scrambling for space and relevance in that space, the more people we’re reaching.

Richard T: How many PTs are in Australia now? How many are registered with Fitness Australia at the moment?

Bill Moore: We’ve got about 23,000 registered with us at the moment.

Richard T: Yep. And is that continuing to grow every year?

Bill Moore: No. That continues to decline.

Richard T: Okay.

Bill Moore: And it has done now for a couple of years.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: 2012-13 was probably the year when everybody wanted to be a personal trainer.

Richard T: Trainer. Yep.

Bill Moore: And then starting to realise that yes you get up at half past four in the morning your client doesn’t turn up and you did finish at 10.00 pm the night before and –

Richard T: Been there. (Laughs)

Bill Moore: Yep. So, there was a flurry of activity. There was support from the government with VET – the VET-FEE HELP thing happened.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: And then at the end of the day, we are now in a correction phase.

Richard T: Okay.

Bill Moore: So, we’re pretty much heading, cruising altitude.

Richard T: And a correction phase is a normal phase in, kind of, any life cycle, and I’ve noticed personally in the industry that it’s around quality, as well, and we’re not getting, I think, the fitness industry is more professional, you could say, and it may not be the fly-by nine as it were here for a quick buck and they’re kind of gone. Would you agree to some of those statements?

Bill Moore: Yeah, I would, actually. I think that the function of Fitness Australia is to professionalise the industry.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: At every level. We professionalise, literally, make a profession out of it. So, if you’re, you know, a professional trainer, we’re going to professionalise it from the perspective of a business, an industry, and its representation of government and the amount of cut-through it has when it comes to policy-making decisions and such like. So, that’s that stage. That’s effectively what I guess is the central tanner of what Fitnees Australia does. Yes, it does the association does, and indeed, the industry as a whole.

Richard T: Yeah. And we’ll talk about that. So, our company, COM, we do business marketing education. We’ve come aboard to give business marketing education advice to personal trainers and gym owners and we believe through education, we can really have an impact in their business. I’d love to hear your opinion on how do you think businesses, and you’ve been in business your entire life, how do you think businesses need to move ahead now with their fitness industry marketing, with their business, with their education, to be better business people, to be better organisations, to be better gyms, to be better personal trainers? What are the key tricks that you have or tools that you have?

Bill Moore: Well, I’d start by saying that anyone in the fitness industry, whatever business is that they’re running, they’re actually running a digital marketing business.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: So, fundamentally if you start there and work backwards, you’re going to be okay. So, understanding that digital marketing is fundamental to the way that … to the success of your business, it’s longevity and its profitability –

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: Is the first stage. Understanding too that I think I indicated early on, one of the … if you don’t know about it, find someone that does. And not if you’re well understanding digital marketing and indeed, unless you’re really focused on that space, the pace will change.

Richard T: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Moore: You’re going to dictate the fact that –

Richard T: Sure.

Bill Moore: We’re going to be a bit left behind.

Richard T: Sure.

Bill Moore: So, I think they’re fundamentals with it.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: The days of an ape frame outside of a gym long gone.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: That’s all over. It was cheap, but you know.

Richard T: (Laughs)

Bill Moore: But those days are long gone.

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: But I think that’s a fundamental premise.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: Certainly something like the digital marketing “health check” –

Richard T: Yeah.

Bill Moore: That’s something that in Fitness Australia, we’re, we like to make it as easy as we possibly can for businesses to grow. We have a growing fitness business product.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: And there’s every element in there.

I know that when I was in business and particularly in small business, there is so much that you have to get your head around.

Richard T: There is.

Bill Moore: And in the end you have to be something of an accountant, you’ve got to understand about your marketing, you’ve got to know about what the fair work act says about your employees and all these things. It’s very, very complex base. We shouldn’t have to think that we are or believe that there is any ownice upon us to be experts in all of these bases … there’s not.

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: And getting help when and where you can and getting support when and where you can, that was a big message, I mean probably for me, in 12 Week Body Transformation.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: We didn’t know about digital. We brought two people on that did.

Richard T: Yeah. That’s really transformed, because you’re literally saying, “Hey. If you want to be in business, if you want to be in the fitness business, you need to understand that you’re in the digital space. Get that right, then you can do what you’re really passionate about.

Bill Moore: Yeah.

Richard T: That’s ultimately what you’re saying here.

Bill Moore: Yep. Yep.

Richard T: It’s very powerful, because I believe that as an industry we’re going to impact the people that need the help, you need to impact them through marketing. You need to make sure you get your message out there, because unfortunately, you do not get paid how good, how clean your equipment is, or you know, have you done your books for the weekend. Like, yeah, that’s needed, but ultimately you get paid, are you getting the clients in your door, ultimately?

Bill Moore: Mmm. Mmm.

Richard T: So, it’s really good advice there.

I want to finish up just in regards to where you think, and I think you’ve already shared a whole ray of some major lessons that you learnt. I did like, the biggest one, is getting proximity around you that, if you don’t know it, go find people that do in any way, shape or form, and you’ve literally formed a company with the people that you didn’t have that skill set in. So, I think that’s probably the huge lesson here we’re talking about, but if you can give one piece of advice now to a business owner that’s just started up and they’ve got to understand everything, where do you think, what’s the biggest piece of advice that you could give a business owner to stay in business over the next 20 years? What’s … if you look back in your past history, where do you think the number one thing that really made an impact in your business?

Bill Moore: Well, I think there’s a couple of things, and certainly the biggest one is the professional side of that. There’s absolutely no doubt that the success that I’ve been fortunate enough to enjoy, I could never have ever done that on my own. That leads into the second piece, which is engagement and engaging with others, engaging with other businesses. It goes in with your association, engaging with other –

Richard T: Yep.

Bill Moore: So, you’ve got to be in out there amongst it.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: The people that don’t do it so well are the go-it-alones.

Richard T: Right.

Bill Moore: They’re just tucked away in a little corner here, and yeah – mainly word of mouth that I get. No, no, no. You’ve got to be out and you’ve got to be getting amongst them. And off the back of that, probably the third piece, is you’ve got to be busy. You know, you can’t be staggering around checking Facebook between clients.

Richard T: Mmm.

Bill Moore: You’ve got to be busy. You’ve got to be in, on and —

Richard T: Disciplined.

Bill Moore: Yep. Absolutely. The old hard work addage, it’s still relevant.

Richard T: Love it. These are amazing advice and amazing tips there.

Thank you so much, Bill. Appreciate your time. I know you’re a busy man. You’ve got fitness, a fitness expo coming up.

Bill Moore: Richard. Thank you so much.

Richard T: Thank you so much.

Bill Moore: Lovely to chat with you.

Richard T: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

That’s this week’s episode on industry change. I’ll see you next time.

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